Underly was invited by the committee to deliver testimony and answer questions last week, but she sent other representatives, including Deputy Deputy State Superintendent Tom McCarthy, for the agency in her stead on Thursday. (Photo by Baylor Spears/Wisconsin Exmainer)

State Superintendent Jill Underly didn’t show up to answer questions from Wisconsin lawmakers about the process the Department of Public Instruction uses for investigating reports of sexual misconduct by educators and for determining licensing.

Underly was invited by the committee to deliver testimony and answer questions, after a report from The Capital Times last week found that DPI investigated over 200 cases of Wisconsin teachers, aides, substitutes and administrators accused of sexual misconduct or grooming behaviors toward students from 2018 to 2023. Underly sent other representatives for the agency in her stead on Thursday. According to WisPolitics, Underly was out of state to accept an alumni award from Indiana University. 

The conversation surrounding the agency’s handling of sexual misconduct and grooming allegations and licensure was sparked by the CapTimes report, which  detailed a number of questions related to the system the agency uses to track data on cases, suggested the agency wasn’t making information readily available to the public and noted the few resources that the agency has to investigate cases and track information. 

In a YouTube video posted Thursday, Underly said lawmakers, law enforcement, educators and families would need to come to the table to build a “stronger system that protects every child and respects the rule of law.”  

“Let me be absolutely clear: the safety, dignity, and well-being of Wisconsin’s children is — and will always be — our first and most important responsibility,” Underly said. “We investigate every single complaint we receive. These investigations are conducted thoroughly, professionally, and within the legal authority given to us. Licensure actions — whether it is a suspension, revocation, or voluntary surrender — are not made lightly. They are based on evidence, not speculation; on due process, not headlines.” 

Last week, Underly called the report “misleading” in a letter and requested a retraction or correction from the CapTimes. In response, CapTimes Editor Mark Treinen said the paper  stands by the reporting. 

Rep. Amanda Nedweski (R-Pleasant Prairie) announced that she is working on a set of bills in response to the article. 

One bill focuses on implementing a criminal penalty for “grooming” of children by sexual predators in state statute. Nedweski also said she is drafting a bill to require school districts to adopt clear policies outlining appropriate communication boundaries between staff and students and a bill to prohibit DPI  from allowing teachers under investigation for sexual misconduct to surrender their teaching license to avoid further scrutiny. 

Lawmakers expressed concern at Underly’s absence, noting the seriousness of the issue. 

At the start of the hearing, Rep. Mike Bare (D-Verona) said he was “disappointed” by Underly’s absence. 

“I am deeply, deeply disappointed that Superintendent Underly could not bring herself to the meeting,” Nedweski, who chairs the committee, said. “These are very, very serious issues.” 

Nedweski said she had a meeting with DPI staff on Monday, but the Underly never reached out to her to ask to reschedule the hearing. She said she would have gladly accommodated a different date.

“I guess she just couldn’t find it important enough,” she added.  

At a press conference after the hearing, Nedweski, Sen. John Jagler (R-Watertown) and U.S. Rep. Tom Tiffany, who is running for governor in 2026, criticized Underly for her absence. 

“I would call on [Gov. Tony Evers] at this point… do you find this acceptable? Is this acceptable what has gone on here in the state of Wisconsin?” Tiffany asked. “I think it’s time for the governor to call on Jill Underly to either do her job or step aside.”

Tiffany said he would ensure proper investigations and create a public dashboard showing why teachers lose their licenses if he is elected governor. 

DPI representatives and law enforcement discuss lack of “grooming” statute

The hearing began with testimony from Kenosha Chief of Police Patrick Patton, Deputy Chief of Police Joseph Labatore and officer Kate Schaper, who addressed  the difference between investigations conducted by law enforcement and the role of the DPI. 

DPI Deputy State Superintendent Tom McCarthy delivered testimony and answered questions on behalf of Underly and the agency. He was joined by Rich Judge, who serves as DPI’s assistant superintendent of government and public affairs, and Jennifer Kammerud, who serves as the educator licensing director. 

McCarthy began his testimony by laying out the role of the agency in handling sexual misconduct and grooming allegations. He said the agency’s main role is in the state’s licensing system, which is how they can draw attention to people who shouldn’t be in the classroom. 

“When we hear about allegations … we are deadly serious,” McCarthy said. “We use all of the tools that we have available. We do not have subpoena power, but we do attempt to get information from anybody that can support a license investigation case, and given how sensitive these things are, we try to work as thoroughly and quickly as possible.” 

McCarthy noted that DPI typically receives accusations from law enforcement agencies, required reporting from local school districts, complaints from members of the public and from news media reports, which McCarthy said the agency scans frequently. 

Both McCarthy and the law enforcement officers spoke to concerns about the lack of a definition for grooming in Wisconsin state statute.

According to RAINN, grooming is the “deliberate act of building trust with a child, teen, or at-risk adult (such as an adult with a cognitive impairment) for the purpose of exploiting them sexually.”

DPI recommended in its testimony that a definition for grooming should include patterns of flirtatious behavior, making any effort to gain unreasonable access to or time alone with any student with no discernable educational purpose, engaging in any behavior that can reasonably be construed as involving an inappropriate relationship with a student and engaging in any other special treatment not in compliance with generally accepted educational practices.

McCarthy said lawmakers should consider requiring an annual training should they adopt a definition of grooming.

“We need to be reminding folks of the types of behaviors and things that we expect from them. It doesn’t matter what type of school,” McCarthy said. 

Questioning by lawmakers was tense and combative at times. 

Nedweski said she was unclear about why there is confusion over whether grooming can be used to remove a teacher’s license.

Current state law says that a teacher’s license can be revoked due to “immoral conduct,” which is defined as “conduct or behavior that is contrary to commonly accepted moral or ethical standards and that endangers the health, safety, welfare, or education of any pupil.” 

“Do we have to explicitly write the word ‘grooming’ in this law to spell out that grooming is not commonly accepted moral at ethical standards? I tend to believe that most Wisconsinites would think the law is comprehensive. Any kind of behavior that resembles grooming in any definition is already covered there,” Nedweski said. 

McCathy said the statute right now is “vague and ambiguous.” 

“When we find these things we go after them,” McCarthy said. “The department is using all of its authority to put its foot down in the spaces and revoke licenses. We’re doing that in a space right now where the authority doesn’t necessarily back us in every instance.” 

The Assembly Government Oversight, Accountability and Transparency (GOAT) committee voted unanimously to approve a motion to request that Attorney General Josh Kaul provide an opinion on two questions: whether grooming is “contrary to commonly accepted moral or ethical standards” and does grooming “endanger the health, safety, welfare or education” of a pupil. 

Voluntary revocations and information on license status

McCarthy also told lawmakers that they view voluntary surrenders as an important tool for them. He said they will ask educators under investigation to do so throughout the process. 

The agency has noted that it often gives several opportunities for teachers to voluntarily surrender their licenses.

McCarthy said that voluntary surrenders related to a sexual misconduct investigation are most often lifetime surrenders, meaning that in a legal agreement they won’t be able to apply for an educator’s license again.

Revocations and voluntary surrenders are also reported to the National Association of State Directors of Teacher Education and Certification (NASDTEC) — a national database that state education agencies can access that includes information about the misconduct. That database is not accessible to the public. 

McCarthy noted that information is available on the DPI website on the status of a teacher’s license, though one needs to know a licensee’s name in order to check. The information will say whether an educator’s license is under investigation, has been revoked or voluntarily surrendered, though it doesn’t include information on why. He said the agency is working with old, rigid software that makes it difficult to add additional information. 

Nedweski said she didn’t “buy” the explanation that the agency was giving.

“It’s remarkable because the Wisconsin Department of Safety and Professional Services can show you the reason for a license revocation for anyone,” Nedweski said, including explanations for manicurists. “It’s easier for me as a member of the public to find out why a cosmetologist lost their license and why it was revoked than it is for me to find out why a teacher license was revoked… Why is it so hard for us to find out critical safety information?” 

The agency requested $600,000 in the most recent state budget process to modernize its online background checks and licensing platform — a request that was rejected by the Republican-led Legislature.

The agency also suggested that lawmakers consider increasing reporting requirements to all school types and all individuals who are present in schools. McCarthy noted that the agency doesn’t have the ability to revoke licenses of people that don’t have to be licensed — including paraprofessionals and teachers in taxpayer-supported private schools. 

Lawmakers said they plan to provide Underly with other opportunities to speak in public forums about the issue. 

Jagler said the Senate Education Committee, which he chairs, will have an informational hearing on Nov. 4 where Underly will be the only invited speaker.

The Joint Audit Committee also noticed a hearing on Nov. 5 to launch an audit of educational licensure revocation, suspension, restriction and investigation at DPI.

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Senate and Assembly Democratic lawmakers proposed their own package of education bills ahead of the floor session that would increase general aid for public schools by $325 per pupil, provide transparency on voucher school costs and provide free school meals to students. (Photo by Baylor Spears/Wisconsin Examiner)

Wisconsin Assembly Republicans passed a handful of bills Thursday on an array of issues. Democrats argued the measures won’t solve the problems facing Wisconsinites and unveiled their own proposals. 

The Assembly floor session is the first since lawmakers broke for the summer after completing the state budget. The Senate does not plan to meet this month, and Senate Minority Leader Dianne Hesselbein (D-Middleton) told reporters during a press conference that it was a “shame” they wouldn’t. She said she has had conversations about meeting in October. 

Assembly Minority Leader Greta Neubauer (D-Racine) said Republicans’ agenda for Thursday was an example of “prioritizing culture wars” rather than “doing what’s right.” 

Democrats’ education bills

Senate and Assembly Democratic lawmakers proposed their own package of education bills ahead of the floor session that would increase general aid for public schools by $325 per pupil, provide transparency on voucher school costs and provide free school meals to students. 

“We would like to see our legislative Republican colleagues focus on the issues that are facing Wisconsinites — issues like cost of living, their public schools and their property taxes,” Neubauer said. “That’s why we’re bringing forward this package today, because we know from conversations with our constituents what they’re really concerned about.”

The Democrats’ education agenda  contrasts with the plan announced by Assembly Republicans earlier this week. Republican proposals include encouraging consolidation of schools, calling on Gov. Tony Evers to opt into a federal school choice program, banning drones over schools and improving math education.

One Democratic  bill would dedicate $325 in additional per pupil state aid to Wisconsin school districts. It would cost nearly $500 million for 2025-26 and nearly $700 million for 2026-27. 

Sen. Kelda Roys (D-Madison) called it the “bare minimum” that school districts need and said it would help school districts avoid raising property taxes. 

“School districts will do better under this bill than current law,” Roys said. “We know every kid around the state deserves to go to a great school so that they can meet their potential, but to be clear, this bill is not everything that our kids need or deserve, not even close.” 

Wisconsin’s most recent state budget did not give school districts any increase in per pupil general aid, despite calls from education advocates, Gov. Tony Evers and other Democrats to provide additional funding.

Republican lawmakers said they would not increase state aid after  Evers used his partial veto power to extend a cap on the annual increase to limits on the revenue districts can raise from local taxpayer of $325 per pupil for the next 400 years. Without state funding, school districts only have the option of increasing property taxes to bring in the additional funds. The Legislative Fiscal Bureau projects that property taxes will increase by more than 7% on average over the next year.

Roys said the bill is a “test” to see if Republicans want to help keep property taxes stable, since providing no state aid to schools will drive those taxes up. She blamed Republicans for placing districts in a situation where they have to go to property taxpayers to keep up with costs. 

Roys also knocked a Republican bill that would encourage school districts to explore consolidation and sharing services. 

“They want to consolidate school districts. They want to close schools, and by the way, everything’s the governor’s fault. Give me a break,” Roys said. “They want to hold the line on property taxes? Prove it.” 

The bill also includes an additional $31 million to ensure no school districts receive less state aid in 2025-26 than they received in 2024-25. 

The Department of Public Instruction’s July 1 estimate found that 277 districts — or 65.8% — of school districts were going to receive less in general aid from the state in 2025. 

Another bill seeks to provide greater transparency on the costs of voucher schools to districts by requiring property tax bills to include information about the cost. The bill would expand on a push that public school advocates are making at a local level after the city of Green Bay was able to add the information. 

Rep. Deb Andraca (D-Whitefish Bay) said the bill would help inform residents who may be confused about where their tax dollars are going. 

“We can say, time and time again, that the state is underfunding our local public schools. That is true. What they also don’t understand, and there’s a really simple fix, is how much of that money is leaving their district to go to other voucher schools. In some cases, millions and tens of millions of dollars… It is a simple fix. It is very straightforward,” Andraca said.

Requiring in-person work for state employees 

AB 39 would require state employees to return to in-person work for at least 80% of their time — or four days a week for a full-time employee — starting this year. The bill passed 51-44 with all Democrats opposing it. 

The bill initially required state agency employees to be in person the whole week, but an amendment dropped the minimum to four days. 

Republican lawmakers have been calling for stricter limits on remote work for several years. The policies became normal for state employees during the COVID-19 pandemic. 

Nedweski said she isn’t “anti-telework,” but said remote work needs to be managed and measured. She said agencies haven’t provided data to show it is working. During the Assembly Committee on Government Oversight, Accountability and Transparency hearing on the bill, agency leaders said remote work policies have helped with recruitment and retention of employees.

“It’s time for state employees to return to the office and do the work that Wisconsin’s hard-working taxpayers are paying them to do to the best of their ability and in their most productive and efficient way,” Nedweski said. “We have a policy that allows for remote work agreements. We’re not saying the policy is ending, we’re saying, come back, have your performance evaluated and re-sign your remote work agreement.” 

Rep. Mike Bare (D-Verona), the ranking member of the GOAT committee, pointed to the testimony they heard as he argued the bill wouldn’t help.

“A bill like this with a one-size-fits-all return to work policy will not make our state government better… Remote work policies were born from a crisis, and we all remember too well. They’ve  become a success for our state government. We now have state workers dispersed all across the state. We’ve achieved savings by consolidating physical workspace. We’ve stayed competitive with the private market by appealing to how employees want to work and then what they expect from their work environment.” 

Flag prohibition

AB 58 would prohibit flags, other than the United States flag, the state of Wisconsin flag and a few others on a list of exceptions, from being flown outside state and local buildings including the Wisconsin State Capitol. The bill passed 50-44, along party lines. 

Rep. Jerry O’Connor, the author of the bill, argued that flags are part of the reason for increasing divisiveness, and even political violence. Wisconsin leaders condemned political violence during the session after the assassination of right-wing activist Charlie Kirk on Wednesday.

“It’s not the role of the government to pick the winners and losers on partisan and activist issues,” O’Connor said. 

Some of the exceptions would include local government flags, those commemorating veterans, prisoners of war or missing in action, those recognizing a foreign nation for special purposes and a flag of a unit of firefighters, law enforcement officers or emergency medical technicians. 

He said these exceptions are “simply recognizing those flags that are efficiently recognized by all levels of government.”

“We should have a shared outlook as to what we do as elected officials in this building here to promote unity and not division… I think we all could agree that those are the flags that represent all of us,” O’Connor said. 

Rep. Chuck Wichgers (R-Muskego) spoke specifically about pride flags, which are a symbol of the LGBTQ+ community, when explaining his support of the legislation. 

“You’re asking every Wisconsinite to sanction what that means,” Wichgers said in reference to the Progress Pride flag. The chevron portions of the flag include black and brown stripes to represent people of color who identify with the LGBTQ+ community as well as those living with HIV/AIDS. The light blue, pink and white stripes in the chevron represent transgender people.

“I can guarantee you when you ask the people that are in favor, they’re not going to know what that chevron means, so we’re endorsing, sanctioning something that is being flown above our flag that is probably divisive,” Wichgers said. 

Rep. Christine Sinicki (D-Milwaukee) said, however, that she views the bill as being divisive and as a violation of the First Amendment. 

“I think as a body we should be promoting inclusiveness. It’s not just the more morally right thing to do. It also strengthens our communities, promotes mutual respect, and actually leads to more civic engagement,” Sinicki said. “These symbolic acts do matter. They matter to me, and they matter to the majority of people across Wisconsin.” 

Prohibit health services funding for immigrants without legal status

AB 308, coauthored by Rep. Alex Dallman (R-Markesan), passed 50-44 along party lines. The bill would prohibit state, county, village, long-term care district and federal funds from being used to subsidize, reimburse or provide compensation for any health care services for a person not lawfully in the United States.

Dallman said at a press conference that the bill is meant to stop Wisconsin from expanding its Medicaid to cover immigrants without legal status. Wisconsin already doesn’t allow this. 

“This is going to take a step forward to say that we are going to again keep these funds available for our citizens who are paying in all these dollars,” Dallman said. 

Advocates expressed concerns to the Examiner earlier this week that the bill would lead to health service providers having to check everyone’s citizenship status before providing care.

Rep. Angela Stroud (D-Ashland) said the bill is “the kind of thing that makes people hate politics.”

“We don’t provide health care to undocumented immigrants. The reason we’re voting on this today is so that the majority party can go out and tell their voters that Democrats failed to stop giving health insurance to undocumented people, but we can’t stop something that isn’t happening. Why waste time and taxpayer money this way?” Stroud said. “If you don’t have affordable health care, they don’t want you to hold them accountable. Instead, they want you to blame someone else.”

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