A hallway in La Follette High School in Madison. (Baylor Spears/Wisconsin Examiner)

Wisconsin Superintendent Jill Underly faced more criticism from lawmakers on Wednesday as the Joint Legislative Audit Committee reviewed the findings of a financial reporting audit and launched an audit of the agency’s licensing procedures.

During the first three hours of the committee hearing, Underly’s absence was a major discussion point for lawmakers on the committee as they reviewed the financial audit. She has also faced criticism for being absent about two weeks ago at the Assembly Government Oversight Accountability and Transparency committee meeting when she was in Indiana to accept an award. 

“This body is extremely disappointed that right now, when we’re going over an audit that probably impacts over $12 billion in what’s spent by our educational legal entities, that Dr. Underly is not joining us,” Rep. Robert Wittke (R-Caledonia) said, adding that the committee provided details on the meeting weeks in advance.

Wittke said Underly is the only agency head who has not come before the committee when it is discussing an audit. 

“You don’t get the governor out of every hearing, do you?” Superintendent Deputy State Superintendent Tom McCarthy said. “Dr. Underly is an elected official and has dispatched us to manage parts of these duties, and that is why you have me at these, because she does take it very seriously and is staying deeply briefed.” 

“It’s interesting, you say that she’s an elected official, but when I had an audit before us that included the Department of Justice, it appeared that Attorney General [Josh] Kaul could be in front of us and comment on that,” Wittke said. “Constitutionally, she supervises the educational system here, whether elected or not, and… so, I would think that it would be something that she would want to address.”

Wittke quipped that maybe McCarthy should be signing off on the audits instead of Underly. 

Sen. Eric Wimberger (R-Oconto) said he found it “very concerning” that Underly was not at the hearing to discuss the first audit and her absence is a sign of “cowardice in a leader.” 

“To send the people who work for you in to take heat and not take it yourself would make me have a lack of confidence in my leader. I wouldn’t expect Superintendent Underly to have all the answers. Oftentimes an executive leader does not. They’re managerial… to defer to you to answer is quite different than not being available to be held accountable,” Wimberger said. 

The committee launched the audit into the financial reporting and the agency’s process for reviewing audited financial statements following a financial reporting scandal at the Milwaukee Public Schools last year. 

MPS faced significant criticism from lawmakers especially as the information came to light shortly after the district passed a $252 million operational referendum.

“The problem was recurring and compounding to a point where DPI was having difficulty appropriating funding accurately. That information was hidden from the public until after MPS convinced voters locally to approve a $200 million referendum,” Wimberger said during the hearing. “I’m sure voters would have had a different opinion of whether MPS needed money if they knew the district was so unaware of their internal finances.” 

In accordance with state statute, DPI monitors financial school districts’ financial statements  with a requirement that schools submit annually. Schools must contract with a certified public accounting firm, which submits the audited financial statements to DPI. 

Financial information from public schools and independent charter schools is required to be submitted by Dec. 15, under DPI policies. Voucher schools are required to submit financial information by Oct. 15 each year.

MPS was a recurrent discussion point during the hearing, though the audit found that MPS is not the only district with difficulties submitting documents on time.

Among schools’ 2022-23 audited financial statements, the Legislative Audit Bureau found that 77% were submitted on time and 22% were submitted late. For school districts that submitted on time, the agency took on average 87 days to complete its review of those audited financial statements.

Of those submitted late, 70% were submitted at least 29 days late. 

The audit looked at a sample of 18 school districts that submitted their statements late, finding that the agency contacted those districts 47 days after the Dec. 15, 2023 deadline. 

Milwaukee Public Schools’ audits for that year were submitted on Dec. 20, 2024, about a year after the due date —  the latest among all 421 school districts.

McCarthy said Milwaukee Public Schools had been historically late in turning in the district’s  annual audit, but it typically came with communication about why they were late and a commitment that the district would have the audit submitted in the following weeks. 

“That was not a normal year of being late for them,” McCarthy said of December 2023. 

When the lateness of the school district’s reports came to public attention, DPI said it had been meeting with MPS quarterly since April 2023, monthly since February 2024, weekly starting in March 15 2024 and then daily in May 2024 to get the district to submit its reports. The agency has since placed the district under two corrective action plans and withheld over $50 million from Milwaukee schools. Gov. Tony Evers has also launched separate audits of the district.

Wimberger expressed concern that MPS was given a “two-year grace period.” 

McCarthy said he believed the agency was “pretty strict” with the district. 

“If you consider withholding $51 million to be grace, I’ll call you next time we have a problem,” McCarthy said. 

“We used the tools and authority that we had at our disposal to compel the district through two separate corrective action plans, stood shoulder to shoulder in trying to clean up some of the local aspects of what’s going on, and I think the current superintendent has been deeply engaged in committing resources and staffing to making sure that this does not happen again,” McCarthy said. 

McCarthy said the situation with MPS has been a “long, painful journey that we don’t ever want to repeat with any other district.” 

The legislative audit found that DPI does not have a requirement that agency staff contact schools that haven’t submitted financial statements and audits on time. 

The Legislative Audit Bureau made 22 recommendations to DPI to improve its processes. 

Those recommendations included establishing written policies to require that it contact school districts within one month if their documents aren’t submitted by the deadline and regularly contacting schools until those audits are submitted. It also recommended that the agency establish a written policy that implements a deadline for starting its review of audited financial statements and completing those reviews. 

The audit bureau  made similar recommendations for DPI in overseeing private voucher schools and for the Department of Administration in overseeing the financial information for independent charter schools. 

McCarthy said that the agency is taking the audit bureau’s recommendations into consideration. That includes putting in writing all communication with district administrators and school boards as late reporting occurs.

McCarthy also noted that the agency has launched a school financial transparency dashboard that allows people to “dive in and look at any district” including reviewing records of compliance for reporting. 

“I’m glad you’re moving forward to try and crack the systemic problem, in my opinion, that deceived the public in the passing referendums without understanding the true financial situation of their respective district,” Wimberger said. 

Licensing and sexual misconduct audit

Underly was present during the latter half of Wednesday’s hearing, testifying on the agency’s licensing policies and changes it plans to make, especially  to investigations into educators accused of sexual misconduct and grooming. 

“Where were you this morning?” Wimberger asked.

“I was at the DPI,” Underly replied. Wimberger did not push the point. 

Underly repeated much of her testimony from the Tuesday Senate Education Committee including laying out some of the steps the agency is taking, launching a new webpage with the list of educators who have surrendered their licenses or had them revoked, as well as the changes she wants to see lawmakers work on, including providing additional resources for the agency’s licensing responsibilities and closing the loophole that allows unlicensed teachers to work in private schools.

The Joint Legislative Audit Committee voted unanimously to launch an audit into DPI’s policies and processes for educational licensure revocation, suspension, restriction and investigation. The audit will look at trends in the DPI’s investigations, its policies and how Wisconsin compares to its midwestern neighbors.

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“It's been deeply disappointing to see attempts to turn this serious issue into yet another partisan political sideshow. Our kids deserve better than that. Wisconsin families deserve better than that,” Underly said at a press conference. (Photo by Baylor Spears/Wisconsin Examiner)

State Superintendent Jill Underly said allegations of mishandled sexual misconduct and grooming by teachers have been turned into a “partisan political sideshow” as she announced that her agency is launching a database to list the names of teachers  who have surrendered  their licenses or had them revoked. She also laid out other actions that could be taken to improve the current system for responding to allegations.

It was the first time that Underly spoke to the public in person since the publication of a CapTimes report that found there were over 200 investigations into teacher licenses due to allegations of sexual misconduct or grooming from 2018 to 2023. The investigation led to an outcry from lawmakers, who said they want action to ensure students are safe. 

Underly was absent from the first informational hearing on the subject held in the Assembly Government Oversight, Accountability and Transparency (GOAT) committee about two weeks ago. She was out of state to accept an award from her alma mater Indiana University. 

Underly told reporters at a press conference ahead of the hearing Tuesday in the Senate Education Committee that she was interested in “protecting Wisconsin’s children” whether they are in public, private or charter schools and she called on policymakers to work towards solutions and stay away from “finger pointing” and “political theater.” 

“It’s been deeply disappointing to see attempts to turn this serious issue into yet another partisan political sideshow. Our kids deserve better than that. Wisconsin families deserve better than that,” Underly said. “But we won’t be distracted or deterred, and our focus remains exactly where it belongs on protecting kids.” 

Underly’s comments come after U.S. Rep. Tom Tiffany, a Republican gubernatorial hopeful, who stood alongside state Republican lawmakers, suggested during a press conference that Gov. Tony Evers needed to “call on Jill Underly to either do her job or step aside” and connected the issue of sexual misconduct and grooming to “indoctrination” through liberal curriculum in schools. Washington County Executive and gubernatorial hopeful Josh Schoemann outright called for Underly’s resignation. 

Underly told reporters that calls for her resignation are “preposterous.” 

Underly said she will also attend the Joint Audit Committee hearing on Wednesday where lawmakers plan to launch an audit into the educational licensure revocation, suspension, restriction and investigation at DPI. 

During both the press conference and the committee hearing, Underly rejected claims that the agency is shielding information from the public, but said there is more work that can be done to strengthen the agency and the state’s current processes.

“The department does not cover up misconduct. We do not shield information from the public. We do not ignore allegations. We do everything in our power to remove those who harm children from classrooms, and we do it urgently and decisively,” Underly said. “Unfortunately, some have chosen to use this deeply sensitive issue to score political points and that doesn’t protect children. It distracts from real solutions.”

Sen. John Jagler (R-Watertown), who chairs the Senate Education Committee, opened the Senate hearing by saying that the response by DPI, including Underly’s absence from the GOAT committee hearing, was “disturbing” to him.

“The bottom line is kids’ safety needs to be the No. 1 priority, full stop, and I believe that’s what we hope to investigate today and look into how we can help make this a better situation for our kids,” Jagler said. 

Underly said there are several “practical” and “achievable” steps her agency is taking and Wisconsin policymakers could take to bolster safety for students.

Defining grooming 

One of the top steps that Underly identified is for the state to define “grooming” in state law. She said that the agency already investigates and pursues license revocations for teachers accused of grooming students for sexual exploitation and for predatory behavior, but clarifying a definition could help ensure consistency. 

“Grooming and predatory behaviors are not just school issues. They are societal issues that happen in every corner of our communities, and that’s why we need to do more as a state to prevent, identify and address these behaviors wherever they occur,” Underly said. “Without stronger laws and clear definitions, the referrals we receive can be inconsistent. Wisconsin urgently needs to clarify grooming and define it as a crime so that law enforcement can act swiftly and consistently, no matter where it happens.”

A bill, coauthored by Rep. Amanda Nedweski (R-Pleasant Prairie) and Sen. Jesse James (R-Thorp), would define “grooming” in state statute and make it a felony to engage in grooming a child for sexual activity.

Underly said she welcomes conversations about the bill.

Under the bill, “grooming” would be defined as “a course of conduct, pattern of behavior, or series of acts with the intention to condition, seduce, solicit, lure, or entice a child for the purpose of engaging in sexual intercourse or sexual contact, or for the purpose of producing, distributing, or possessing depictions of the child engaged in sexually explicit conduct.” 

It also lists examples of behavior that would constitute grooming including verbal comments or conversations of a sexual nature directed at a child; inappropriate or sexualized physical contact; written, electronic and communication over text and social media to lure or entice a child; promising gifts, privileges, or special attention to lower a child’s inhibitions or create emotional dependence; and acts intended to isolate a child from family or peers. 

The authors of the bill said in a memo that the bill builds on the state laws on grooming that exist in Florida, Texas, Ohio and Illinois. 

A person convicted of a grooming charge would be guilty of a Class G felony, that would increase to a Class F felony if the person is in a position of trust or authority, and to a Class E felony if the child has a disability and to a Class D felony if the violation involves two or more children. A convicted person would also need to register as a sex offender.

Other agency and legislative steps

Lawmakers on the committee also asked about the number of staff dedicated to investigating allegations. 

Underly said they have 1.5 employees working on license investigations and those employees have access to the agency’s team of attorneys. 

Jagler asked whether that was sufficient. 

Underly said it would be helpful to have more resources, though she emphasized that providing subpoena power to the agency would help speed investigations along. 

“We need to strengthen our investigations today. The DPI lacks subpoena power during investigations, meaning we rely on voluntary cooperation of witnesses, district officials, and others to gather critical information,” Underly said. “Even limited authority would allow us to gather evidence more efficiently and act faster to protect kids.” 

Deputy State Superintendent Tom McCarthy noted during the hearing that the agency can become involved in any stage of the process of dealing with allegations, but it is not typically the primary investigator in cases. 

“Most of the time, we are being notified by law enforcement, by county child welfare, by a district who has subsequently said, ‘Hey, we have a teacher who is being investigated by law enforcement or there’s a scenario over here.’

The agency’s role focuses on investigating whether an educator’s license should be removed or whether they should seek a voluntary surrender from someone under investigation. During investigations, McCarthy said the agency typically relies on gathering credible information from law enforcement, school districts, local partners and others. He said even if there isn’t information readily available to be shared with the agency they are still working to “go after these people.” 

“What’s happening with the 1.5 staff is, they’re often following up, saying, ‘Hey, sheriff’s department, have you completed this? Hey, school district, are you done with this particular investigation.’ Without subpoena power, we’re doing that in a voluntary fashion with them. Sometimes they tell us to pound sand, and we have to wait and we have to wait and wait and wait. Sometimes we get tired of waiting and actually, just move into a voluntary surrender or revocation action, but it would be way better for the system if we weren’t always way delayed in the back seat of this entire process so that we could take swifter action.”

Underly said the agency is also working on a statewide code of conduct, which will soon be published for public comment through administrative rules and will serve as a guide for school boards developing policies on professional boundaries. 

DPI has a model policy on its website for school districts, but it isn’t mandatory. 

“That’s something you all would have to talk about as to whether you want that to be more than just recommended on the website,” said Jennifer Kammerud, who serves as DPI’s educator licensing director.

Another step, Underly said, includes the launch of a new online database to allow the public to view licenses that have been revoked or surrendered. She said the new tool will create more transparency by expanding on the current teacher license lookup tool. 

Currently, the public can see the status of a teacher’s  license on the primary database, a teacher’s name is required to check a license status. The new database lists names of individuals in alphabetical order who have voluntarily surrendered or had their licenses revoked. 

McCarthy said it would be a little while before the website is updated with information about the reasoning behind license revocation or surrender because the information is not electronic yet. He said DPI must locate individual revocation orders and will add the information as it is gathered.

In addition, Underly said that the state needs to modernize the licensing system used for educators, but the agency needs resources to get it done. She said that allowing DPI to keep 10% of licensing fees, which is currently diverted away from the agency, would allow investments in licensing improvements and investigations. 

The agency also requested $600,000 in the most recent state budget process to modernize its online background checks and licensing platform, but that was rejected by the Republican-led Legislature. 

During the hearing Republican lawmakers questioned why Underly hadn’t come specifically to them with her requests. (During the most recent budget process, the Joint Finance Committee, which typically hosts agency heads to explain their budget requests, declined to invite Underly or DPI to make a presentation.)

“Obviously, I’ll never tell you how to do your job, Superintendent, but you mentioned requesting for funding — how [Joint Finance Committee] has never asked you to come talk to them. I guess in my experience [Department of Safety and Professional Standards] Sec. Dan [Hereth] was in my office asking and explaining those things,” said Sen. Romaine Quinn (R-Birchwood), who is a member of the Joint Finance Committee. “I would just say no one is going to ask you to come in and ask for more money.” 

Underly also said the state needs to close loopholes for private schools. Educators employed at private schools in Wisconsin are not required to hold a DPI license, meaning staff at those schools fall outside of the agency’s investigative authority. The agency is only able to investigate and keep individuals out of schools via the licensure system.

Sen. Chris Larson (D-Milwaukee) emphasized that he wanted discussions about improving the process to cover students in public, private and other schools. 

“I would hope that as we focus our attention on what is happening in the public domain, and what information is publicly available and was pulled off of a public website, and then publicly reported, that we don’t pretend that because things are private and happening in private schools and behind closed doors that the 125,000 students who are in classrooms where there is not a required licensure and where there is not required reporting and where information is not public, that we pretend that there are not problems that exist there,” Larson said. 

At one point during the committee hearing, Larson asked his colleagues whether they would want to work to help close the loophole. Sen. Sarah Keyeski (D-Lodi) nodded.

“It’s a dangerous loophole and we need to close it,” Underly said.

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U.S. Rep. Tom Tiffany (center) at the Wisconsin State Capitol Thursday Oct 23 with Sen. John Jagler (L) and Rep. Amanda Nedweski (R). Republicans scolded State Superintendent Jill Underly for not appearing at a hearing prompted by a Cap Times investigation of teacher sexual misconduct. | Photo by Ruth Conniff/Wisconsin Examiner

U.S. Rep. Tom Tiffany, the leading Republican candidate for governor of Wisconsin, held a press conference on the steps of the state Capitol Thursday to declare his outrage over a Cap Times investigation that tracked more than 200 cases of alleged child sexual abuse by Wisconsin teachers and suggested a lack of accountability and transparency by the state Department of Public Instruction. 

Bolstering Tiffany’s case, State Superintendent Jill Underly decided to skip Thursday’s Senate hearing on the controversy. Instead, Underly traveled to Indiana to accept an award from her alma mater, leaving DPI staff to endure questioning by members of a state Senate committee eager to hang child sex abuse allegations around the necks of DPI, Gov. Tony Evers and other Democrats.

Recognizing an opportunity, Tiffany parachuted in to add his voice to the chorus. “You will never have to wonder if I will show up,” Tiffany declared. “I will always be there for Wisconsin and our children, even when state Democrat leaders fail to do so.” He drew a tenuous connection between the accusation that DPI has provided insufficient oversight of predatory teachers to bashing the state agency for “lower standards” in schools and for embracing diversity, equity and inclusion. ”DPI spent two hours a week creating a DEI plan, but couldn’t find the time to investigate these cases,” Tiffany declared. He promised that if he’s elected governor he will ensure proper misconduct investigations of teachers and create a public dashboard showing why they lost their licenses, “most of all,” he added, “we’re going to educate kids, not indoctrinate.” 

As soon as Tiffany finished converting the story about abuse by teachers into red meat for his campaign, state Democrats jumped into the mosh pit, accusing him of hypocrisy because he voted against releasing the Epstein files. 

None of this mud-slinging sheds any light on what’s happening to kids in Wisconsin schools or how the state can better protect them.

Several of my daughters’ friends at Madison East High School were targeted by David Krutchen, a popular teacher who had close relationships with many of his students and who, it turned out, spent years spying on girls during overnight field trips, placing hidden cameras in hotel bathrooms and bedrooms. The Krutchen case took a heavy toll on those kids and their families. It was a shocking, disgusting betrayal of the students by a trusted adult. For years the court hearings dragged on, and traumatized students had to keep showing up to testify. Finally, Krutchen went to prison.

According to the Cap Times story, which includes interviews with some of Krutchen’s victims, DPI “shielded” more than 200 cases of teacher sexual misconduct from the public. That frame could lead you to believe that DPI was protecting pedophile teachers the same way the Catholic Church spent years shuffling pedophile priests around to avoid accountability and bad press. But that’s not the impression I got from DPI’s testimony. In a video Underly posted on Facebook, and in her deputies’ testimony to legislators, the agency insisted that allowing teachers to voluntarily give up their licenses is not a “loophole” to end embarrassing investigations but ensures teachers who face misconduct charges are entered into a national database that can be accessed by other state education departments.

The Cap Times story, aided by a successful open records request, does give the sense that DPI has a slipshod system for keeping track of misconduct investigations, with just two staff people in charge of hundreds of cases, information stored on a Google spreadsheet, and 20% of cases where it’s unclear what type of misconduct was investigated. 

In its defense, DPI points out that the Legislature cut the agency’s budget by millions of dollars and they are doing their best. That point would have sounded better coming from Underly herself, instead of her deputies who had to fill in because she couldn’t bother to appear in person to demonstrate she actually cares about these horrible cases. 

Underly’s failure to show up and address the repercussions of the story is inexcusable. As the top educator in the state, she needs to reassure students and their parents that she cares about them and is on their side.

But the Republicans rushing to connect Underly’s weak leadership to all of their talking points about schools are equally unhelpful.

Ever since former Gov. Scott Walker began heaping scorn on teachers, painting them as lazy, overpaid and incompetent while ramming through his explosively controversial union-busting Act 10 law, the GOP has weaponized divisive distrust of teachers and public schools. Aided by a powerful private school choice lobby, they’ve hammered away on the idea that private schools are better and siphoned millions of dollars in taxpayer support for public education out of public classrooms and into the private sphere.

“We are going to make sure that Wisconsin goes back to the top of the game,” Tiffany declared Thursday, adding, “We are behind Mississippi in educational attainment. Less than one in three kids can read at grade level in the fourth grade in the state of Wisconsin. Is that not a disaster? That will not be the case if I’m elected as governor, we will have accountability and we will have higher standards.”

But the defunding of Wisconsin public schools that began under Walker and continues today is directly tied to the decline in quality. It’s not laziness or pedophilia that plague our school system. It’s deliberate neglect.

Republican calls for “higher standards” and “accountability” have, over the past two decades, been accompanied by disinvestment and the steady expansion of a publicly funded private voucher school system.

Ironically, the private schools Republicans champion in the school choice program have no teacher licensing requirements and DPI has no way to oversee or investigate their employees. Nor are private schools subject to Wisconsin’s open records laws. We will never get to see how they handle cases of employee misconduct.

There’s a reason it’s a big story when adults abuse the trust of children. It’s despicable behavior. Politicians who ignore or capitalize on that crime for political gain do us no good.

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Underly was invited by the committee to deliver testimony and answer questions last week, but she sent other representatives, including Deputy Deputy State Superintendent Tom McCarthy, for the agency in her stead on Thursday. (Photo by Baylor Spears/Wisconsin Exmainer)

State Superintendent Jill Underly didn’t show up to answer questions from Wisconsin lawmakers about the process the Department of Public Instruction uses for investigating reports of sexual misconduct by educators and for determining licensing.

Underly was invited by the committee to deliver testimony and answer questions, after a report from The Capital Times last week found that DPI investigated over 200 cases of Wisconsin teachers, aides, substitutes and administrators accused of sexual misconduct or grooming behaviors toward students from 2018 to 2023. Underly sent other representatives for the agency in her stead on Thursday. According to WisPolitics, Underly was out of state to accept an alumni award from Indiana University. 

The conversation surrounding the agency’s handling of sexual misconduct and grooming allegations and licensure was sparked by the CapTimes report, which  detailed a number of questions related to the system the agency uses to track data on cases, suggested the agency wasn’t making information readily available to the public and noted the few resources that the agency has to investigate cases and track information. 

In a YouTube video posted Thursday, Underly said lawmakers, law enforcement, educators and families would need to come to the table to build a “stronger system that protects every child and respects the rule of law.”  

“Let me be absolutely clear: the safety, dignity, and well-being of Wisconsin’s children is — and will always be — our first and most important responsibility,” Underly said. “We investigate every single complaint we receive. These investigations are conducted thoroughly, professionally, and within the legal authority given to us. Licensure actions — whether it is a suspension, revocation, or voluntary surrender — are not made lightly. They are based on evidence, not speculation; on due process, not headlines.” 

Last week, Underly called the report “misleading” in a letter and requested a retraction or correction from the CapTimes. In response, CapTimes Editor Mark Treinen said the paper  stands by the reporting. 

Rep. Amanda Nedweski (R-Pleasant Prairie) announced that she is working on a set of bills in response to the article. 

One bill focuses on implementing a criminal penalty for “grooming” of children by sexual predators in state statute. Nedweski also said she is drafting a bill to require school districts to adopt clear policies outlining appropriate communication boundaries between staff and students and a bill to prohibit DPI  from allowing teachers under investigation for sexual misconduct to surrender their teaching license to avoid further scrutiny. 

Lawmakers expressed concern at Underly’s absence, noting the seriousness of the issue. 

At the start of the hearing, Rep. Mike Bare (D-Verona) said he was “disappointed” by Underly’s absence. 

“I am deeply, deeply disappointed that Superintendent Underly could not bring herself to the meeting,” Nedweski, who chairs the committee, said. “These are very, very serious issues.” 

Nedweski said she had a meeting with DPI staff on Monday, but the Underly never reached out to her to ask to reschedule the hearing. She said she would have gladly accommodated a different date.

“I guess she just couldn’t find it important enough,” she added.  

At a press conference after the hearing, Nedweski, Sen. John Jagler (R-Watertown) and U.S. Rep. Tom Tiffany, who is running for governor in 2026, criticized Underly for her absence. 

“I would call on [Gov. Tony Evers] at this point… do you find this acceptable? Is this acceptable what has gone on here in the state of Wisconsin?” Tiffany asked. “I think it’s time for the governor to call on Jill Underly to either do her job or step aside.”

Tiffany said he would ensure proper investigations and create a public dashboard showing why teachers lose their licenses if he is elected governor. 

DPI representatives and law enforcement discuss lack of “grooming” statute

The hearing began with testimony from Kenosha Chief of Police Patrick Patton, Deputy Chief of Police Joseph Labatore and officer Kate Schaper, who addressed  the difference between investigations conducted by law enforcement and the role of the DPI. 

DPI Deputy State Superintendent Tom McCarthy delivered testimony and answered questions on behalf of Underly and the agency. He was joined by Rich Judge, who serves as DPI’s assistant superintendent of government and public affairs, and Jennifer Kammerud, who serves as the educator licensing director. 

McCarthy began his testimony by laying out the role of the agency in handling sexual misconduct and grooming allegations. He said the agency’s main role is in the state’s licensing system, which is how they can draw attention to people who shouldn’t be in the classroom. 

“When we hear about allegations … we are deadly serious,” McCarthy said. “We use all of the tools that we have available. We do not have subpoena power, but we do attempt to get information from anybody that can support a license investigation case, and given how sensitive these things are, we try to work as thoroughly and quickly as possible.” 

McCarthy noted that DPI typically receives accusations from law enforcement agencies, required reporting from local school districts, complaints from members of the public and from news media reports, which McCarthy said the agency scans frequently. 

Both McCarthy and the law enforcement officers spoke to concerns about the lack of a definition for grooming in Wisconsin state statute.

According to RAINN, grooming is the “deliberate act of building trust with a child, teen, or at-risk adult (such as an adult with a cognitive impairment) for the purpose of exploiting them sexually.”

DPI recommended in its testimony that a definition for grooming should include patterns of flirtatious behavior, making any effort to gain unreasonable access to or time alone with any student with no discernable educational purpose, engaging in any behavior that can reasonably be construed as involving an inappropriate relationship with a student and engaging in any other special treatment not in compliance with generally accepted educational practices.

McCarthy said lawmakers should consider requiring an annual training should they adopt a definition of grooming.

“We need to be reminding folks of the types of behaviors and things that we expect from them. It doesn’t matter what type of school,” McCarthy said. 

Questioning by lawmakers was tense and combative at times. 

Nedweski said she was unclear about why there is confusion over whether grooming can be used to remove a teacher’s license.

Current state law says that a teacher’s license can be revoked due to “immoral conduct,” which is defined as “conduct or behavior that is contrary to commonly accepted moral or ethical standards and that endangers the health, safety, welfare, or education of any pupil.” 

“Do we have to explicitly write the word ‘grooming’ in this law to spell out that grooming is not commonly accepted moral at ethical standards? I tend to believe that most Wisconsinites would think the law is comprehensive. Any kind of behavior that resembles grooming in any definition is already covered there,” Nedweski said. 

McCathy said the statute right now is “vague and ambiguous.” 

“When we find these things we go after them,” McCarthy said. “The department is using all of its authority to put its foot down in the spaces and revoke licenses. We’re doing that in a space right now where the authority doesn’t necessarily back us in every instance.” 

The Assembly Government Oversight, Accountability and Transparency (GOAT) committee voted unanimously to approve a motion to request that Attorney General Josh Kaul provide an opinion on two questions: whether grooming is “contrary to commonly accepted moral or ethical standards” and does grooming “endanger the health, safety, welfare or education” of a pupil. 

Voluntary revocations and information on license status

McCarthy also told lawmakers that they view voluntary surrenders as an important tool for them. He said they will ask educators under investigation to do so throughout the process. 

The agency has noted that it often gives several opportunities for teachers to voluntarily surrender their licenses.

McCarthy said that voluntary surrenders related to a sexual misconduct investigation are most often lifetime surrenders, meaning that in a legal agreement they won’t be able to apply for an educator’s license again.

Revocations and voluntary surrenders are also reported to the National Association of State Directors of Teacher Education and Certification (NASDTEC) — a national database that state education agencies can access that includes information about the misconduct. That database is not accessible to the public. 

McCarthy noted that information is available on the DPI website on the status of a teacher’s license, though one needs to know a licensee’s name in order to check. The information will say whether an educator’s license is under investigation, has been revoked or voluntarily surrendered, though it doesn’t include information on why. He said the agency is working with old, rigid software that makes it difficult to add additional information. 

Nedweski said she didn’t “buy” the explanation that the agency was giving.

“It’s remarkable because the Wisconsin Department of Safety and Professional Services can show you the reason for a license revocation for anyone,” Nedweski said, including explanations for manicurists. “It’s easier for me as a member of the public to find out why a cosmetologist lost their license and why it was revoked than it is for me to find out why a teacher license was revoked… Why is it so hard for us to find out critical safety information?” 

The agency requested $600,000 in the most recent state budget process to modernize its online background checks and licensing platform — a request that was rejected by the Republican-led Legislature.

The agency also suggested that lawmakers consider increasing reporting requirements to all school types and all individuals who are present in schools. McCarthy noted that the agency doesn’t have the ability to revoke licenses of people that don’t have to be licensed — including paraprofessionals and teachers in taxpayer-supported private schools. 

Lawmakers said they plan to provide Underly with other opportunities to speak in public forums about the issue. 

Jagler said the Senate Education Committee, which he chairs, will have an informational hearing on Nov. 4 where Underly will be the only invited speaker.

The Joint Audit Committee also noticed a hearing on Nov. 5 to launch an audit of educational licensure revocation, suspension, restriction and investigation at DPI.

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